Empowering Women’s Health with Dr. Tori Hudson ND: Herbal Remedies & Integrative Medicine

In this episode we welcome Dr. Tori Hudson, a naturopathic physician with over 40 years of experience in integrative women's health. Our conversation covers Dr. Hudson's journey, from her early interest in herbal medicine to becoming an acclaimed author and formulator of Vitanica. Learn about common women's health issues, the importance of diagnosing underlying causes, and how herbs like turmeric and simple seasonal plants can support wellness. Perfect for moms, grandmothers, and anyone curious about natural health, this discussion blends personal stories with practical advice on navigating the complexities of modern and traditional medicine.

For a full breakdown and show notes, please visit us here: http://theherbalistspath.com/womens-natural-health-with-dr-tori-hudson-nd 

And be sure to learn more from Dr. Tori Hudson HERE

Grab some goodies from Vitanica here:

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Chapters

• 1:44 Herbalist Path With Dr. Tori Hudson
• 19:01 Modern Integration of Herbal Medicine
• 24:45 Evolving Challenges in Naturopathic Medicine
• 35:41 Navigating Complex Medical Diagnoses
• 43:24 Menopause Symptoms and Solutions
• 51:56 Herbal Solutions for Women's Health
• 1:05:03 Promoting Herbalism for Everyday Health

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:45

Hello and welcome to the Herbalist Path, a podcast where you'll discover how to make your own herbal remedies at home so that you can take better care of yourself, better care of your family and better care of our planet. I'm Mel. I'm a clinical herbalist, environmental educator and mountain-l living mama with this crazy passion for teaching more mamas and their little loves how to use plants as medicine in a safe, effective and tasty way, so that there can be an herbalist in every home. Again, it's an absolute honor to have you on the journey down the herbalist path with me so that together we can make herbalism Hashtag spread like wildflowers. Welcome back to another episode of the herbalist path.

Speaker 1: 2:39

I am really excited and really honored for today's guest. It's Dr Tori Hudson. She is a naturopathic physician and also a professor at the National University of Naturopathic Medicine, bastyr University, also Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine. She is absolutely brilliant and has been working in the field of integrative women's health for well over 35 years. Right now, she is also the formulator and creator of Vitanica and the education director there, which is a wonderful herbal products company, and she's also the author of the Women's Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine. She is brilliant. I've been following your work for a long time and doing my own research based off of your research. So thank you very much and I'm honored that you're taking the time to come chat on the Herbalist Path. Thank you, Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Thank you, mel, thanks for having me. And we're up to 40 years now actually, and so getting older as the day goes on.

Speaker 1: 3:50

I love it. I love it. I'm, I'm 45. So when I hear that, I'm like this is fascinating and I'm at that age you well know at that age where I'm like, oh, I'm almost becoming wise now. I know enough that. I know I need to know a lot more. And yeah, so fantastic 40 years. So I would love to hear 40 years ago these kinds of things were certainly not at the forefront of mainstream media like it is right now.

Speaker 2: 4:18

And I graduated from naturopathic medical school in 84, but I was, uh, very and I graduated from high school just to give you some context in 1970. So 1970, uh, and in the 70s there was a whole lot of things happening uh, politically and people kind of there's a back to the land movement, uh, hippies, self-sustainability, um, the self-help women's, you know, doing your own speculum, self speculum exams, uh, the first earth day, I think, was in 1970. So all those had quite a bit of convergence into that, you know, you know 18, 19, 20 year old time period, and I, yeah, I quickly, I mean, I did start college after high school, but I, after a couple, after a couple of years, I stopped and took a little side route that led me back to this uh career and but there there was a time, there, yeah, I lived off grid and that was where I really kind of got into herbal medicine and roamed the foothills of the Cascades of southern Oregon and picked and dried and prepared and was sort of the local self-identified herbalist and, you know, was eager to, you know, offer my thoughts and ideas and herbs to people who are interested. But that was uh, yeah, that was quite a while ago and herbal medicine was definitely. I mean, herbal medicine has been around for you know, generations, as you know, but during that period of 70s it was kind of really in the united states and I kind of parked in the, I would say, the hippie alternative lifestyle crowd with some of the, but there were some old timers, you know, dr John Christopher and, uh, other teachers who were sort of the herbal elders of that era.

Speaker 2: 6:45

That then, um, then, I think the, and in out of that time period, some of the more well-known herbalists rosemary gladstar and cascade anderson, those were the ones that were most in my world. But who else? Michael tiara, david Winston, some of those names are people that were starting to, you know, really spread herbal education, and there are others I just don't, you know, I can't list them all right now.

Speaker 1: 7:16

Yeah, it gets challenging to do that.

Speaker 2: 7:20

But they, you know they were influenced me even before I went back to medical school in naturopathic medicine.

Speaker 1: 7:28

I was not eager to read books and take classes that were, in those days, kind of taught, you know, in the woods or taught, taught, taught in not not in regular classroom situations, and that's where I kind of honed some of my early skills. I love that. I can imagine you frolicking through the cascades. It was the cascades that got me into herbalism as well, because I was a backpacking guide and I'm like what's all this toxic crap and everybody's backpacks and first aid kits? And then I'm like but wait, what are these plants and what are they doing?

Speaker 1: 8:09

And that just kind of paved the path, and so did people of your generation, thankfully. It's been a really wonderful and forever learning journey. I think that's one of the beautiful things about it. So I'm curious of young tori in 1970, 71, all the way through that whole window of post high school and frolicking through those mountains and woods that we are so lucky to be around. I'm curious what herbs really made you just go, wow, I need to.

Speaker 2: 8:46

I need to know more you know specifically yeah um, I, I know you sent me that question ahead of time and I had a hard time thinking of the answer because my first thought was actually it started before. Then, in my childhood, I would say, yeah, this I was like for some reason. I was like for some reason I was like glued in on blackberries and blackberry picking, which is a, you know, has sort of fairly pedestrian uses, but but I think I was just really drawn to the fact it's free, it's everywhere, it's in my backyard, I can go pick these berries, I can smell them, I can make things out of them. But and there's many more medicinal aspects to it that I've learned since then, but I would say in the seventies, what kind of really well there was. There was many wild plants and some unusual ones that you know, devil's club and well, maybe not so unusual, but um, you know, of course, a lot of um, medicinal trees, uh, which a lot of people don't often talk about, right, and uh, what else was growing out there in those mountains and those foothills? I remember the Devil's Club, I think at Wild Coltswood, probably his set up Nettles, and I don't know that any one plant just said aha to me, but just the idea and I had this little funky little cabin. I picked things and dried things and hung things and um, so and uh, this was sort of surrounded by by all that and I was very drawn to it and it fit in with the lifestyle of the time and my sort of ethics of the time.

Speaker 2: 10:43

Uh, rose hips also were early on for me and simple things, you know simple and rose hips to this day I love going in the fall, just walk out my door, walk up the path, up the trails here and pick uh, wild rose hips and elderberry leaves that grow in the forest park and and I just kind of just that little ritual that I love. I like the seasonal rituals the blackberries in the summer and the rose hips in the fall and the nettles in the early spring. You know, I sort of like those simple local herbs that I can just easily access and easily preserve and store and you don't have to, it's not complex to use them. I really like that. Now, that's a far cry from sort of Vitanica and formulations and complexities of blends and things. But I think it's a really good reminder for people just to start in simple things that you can easily where I live you can.

Speaker 2: 11:54

I can grow different mints, I can grow lemon balm, I can grow yarrow, I can grow digitalis. Almost like springs up wherever I look on my property and you know, just just, I mean, that's a little dicier herb.

Speaker 2: 12:09

But I'm like that's not one we're going to talk about too much today you know the, the lemon balm, the nettles, the mint, the, the just wonderfully simple things. And I'm not, I can't remember how much, uh, what elevation, but oregon grapefruit also, just right outside my whole backyard is just covered. I have a lot of burdock around here as well.

Speaker 1: 12:34

Yeah, growing wild so much great free medicine yeah, yeah, you're right, it's great, free medicine.

Speaker 2: 12:42

That is fairly minimal effort to actually, you know, gather and prepare.

Speaker 1: 12:49

Yeah, the downfall and this is a great credit to Vitanica and your tasty tonics particularly the downfall to some of that free medicine is it can be really gross, but your tasty tonics are actually really tasty and I ran a little herbal product line for about 13 years.

Speaker 2: 13:06

It was called Mountain Melts, did you?

Speaker 1: 13:08

see that. Did you ever see it in the stores?

Speaker 2: 13:10

Well, I don't think I'll see it, but when I was looking at your website I was reminded of that.

Speaker 1: 13:15

Yeah, Well, one of my focuses was making herbal remedies. So they're palatable, so people want to make them as a part of their life, right, and I look at all of the formulas that you have with vitanica and they are delicious. You know they taste like vanilla or hazelnut and it's just so nice. So thank you so much for that. And, of course, creating formulas that are effective. That's that's the big fun game of it, right, that's the creative part in my but you're right, herbal medicine can kind of be fraught with.

Speaker 2: 13:49

you know, we're specialists in bad tasting medicine, unless you work at it to make it taste better.

Speaker 1: 13:56

Yeah, you give hope that it doesn't have to be that way and I'm a firm believer that it doesn't have to be that way either. I did want to ask you a question, just definitely not off the list that I gave you, but talking about blackberry and you being a specialist in women's health and red raspberry leaf being such a very popular herb for uterine health and such One question I get a lot is about blackberry leaf and if that can be used in similar ways or if the medicinal properties are going to be.

Speaker 2: 14:28

I don't think it translates to a uterine tonic like blackberry does, do you?

Speaker 1: 14:33

are you familiar with that? I have never actually tried blackberry for that, so I was like, oh, I'll ask you, I don't think so at all.

Speaker 2: 14:44

Um yeah, but that's not to say you know, we know everything there is to know, right of course but I was just.

Speaker 2: 14:54

Let me just look right here blackberry leaf uh benefits, I think. Mostly I think of and looks like it's on here, um, just more the um, the antioxidants in the berries, for sure, and flavonoids, and therefore impact on immunity. But, um, I don't know if there's other, looks like maybe a little bit of some uh, sore throat, sore gums, mouth ulcers, inflammation, diarrhea. Yeah, I don't think there's any translation between raspberry leaves and blackberry leaves for as a uterine tonic or postpartum or anything it would be fascinating if somebody later on were like yes, there is, but you know it's.

Speaker 1: 15:40

It's that whole piece of like. We're still learning about these kinds of things. Yeah, when I think about blackberry as medicine, I more think about using it as an astringent in cases of diarrhea or something along those lines. So cool, I just had to ask. It's always fun to chat about that stuff and I love also that you brought up rosemary and you brought up cascade, and cascade has a very strong influence in my path as an herbalist, and of course Rosemary does as well. But I think of those ladies, of women of your age and your generation, and I just I love thinking about stories of you guys just playing and talking about herbs and sharing this wisdom and this knowledge with so many other people, and I know Cascade taught a lot at NUNM as well.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Yeah, she was very influential on my generation of naturopathic physicians. She taught that was and she taught lay people. She taught herbalists. She taught naturopathic physicians. She taught that was and she taught lay people. She taught herbalists, she taught naturopathic physicians. Uh, you know someone else, of course, who's been around a long time susan weed. I don't know. I haven't heard of her for a while so I don't really know if she's still involved in herbal education. Of course, cascade passed away some years ago, may 4th 2013.

Speaker 1: 17:07

2013. I remember very distinctly. Yeah, I was pregnant with my daughter at that time.

Speaker 2: 17:14

Yeah, and I know Rosemary has books that we can still access and Susan Lee has older books that we can still access.

Speaker 1: 17:22

Yeah, Susan's still out and about. Yeah, yeah, susan's still out and about. Um, yeah, I love chatting with Rosemary and anybody learning about her. I love chatting with Elliot, uh, cascade's husband. He's really wonderful. And Cascade actually came to me multiple times right after she passed in my dreams and I was not a believer of such things. I was like, oh no, that's hippy, dippy, woo, woo stuff. People don't really do that and the like. Right after she passed, she was supposed to come teach at the clinical school I was learning at and Came to me in my dreams and said you have what it takes, you have the voice, you have the power to shout it from the mountains and the treetops about the importance of using these plants as medicine you have to go do it.

Speaker 1: 18:13

Yeah, it's a body chilling story for me every time that it comes out so um, one of those very, very special things, and I only took one plant walk with her at Brighton Bush several years before and somehow I was.

Speaker 2: 18:29

That was a good way to learn from her. It was just those. They call them herb walks. I always call them herb stands because there was a lot of standing around and looking at a plant and talking about it. I love that.

Speaker 1: 18:43

I love that.

Speaker 2: 19:01

So you also run a clinic around the Portland Oregon area right, it's a woman. Is we deal with at our clinic, whether that's a gynecological problem, a bigger endocrinological problem or mental health, regular stuff like blood pressure and weight management, arthritis, autoimmune diseases, thyroid headaches, you name it, kind of any and all things.

Speaker 1: 19:28

Yeah, I love that, and I think what I love about what you do is the integration of Western medicine with things like herbs and other natural healing modalities, and I think this is a really important thing to bring up, because as there's a greater and greater rush of people to turn to herbal medicine, I feel like post-pandemic. Suddenly, people are like, oh my gosh, I don't trust western medicine at all, so I never want to go to a doctor again hello yeah, western medicine can save lives.

Speaker 2: 20:01

That's an unfortunate conclusion yeah, I'm a believer in, uh, we need the whole spectrum of options and, uh, one of the beauties of a well-trained, modern thinking naturopathic position would be to be able to navigate that spectrum and understand the strengths and weaknesses of doing more than you need to do, doing less than you need to do, doing less than you need to do and just continually trying to find that sweet spot of what's. You know, if you have a blood pressure, of you know, 190 over 100, I'm not going to just start with garlic and popcorn, berry, you know, and I'm going to be saying, hey, we, we should start on this medication and see if we can work our way down something herbal. On the other hand, if you have a blood pressure you know 130, 140, 150 over something, that's, that's probably a good zone for herbal medicine grape seed, extractorn berry, the herbal diuretic, garlic and magnesium and, of course, nutrition and exercise and stress.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Of course. Yeah, all the key things.

Speaker 2: 21:18

The point is that there's yeah, there's a time and a place, I believe, for all of it and, even more likely, a time and a place for the blend of things.

Speaker 1: 21:30

Yeah, I agree it definitely works really well together and it's just really nice to hear other people speak of that, because I see where people may have gained a great amount of distrust in the system. The system's broken, but balance is really important.

Speaker 2: 21:45

Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of a fan of uh weeding out fundamentalist rigid thinking, no matter which which side, and a more balanced collaborative, uh, uh, uh yeah, balance is a good word.

Speaker 1: 22:09

Yeah, yeah. So I'm curious on one thing I was really fortunate I I did not go to NUNM as a NUNM student, though when I lived in Atlanta, georgia in the nineties, I always flipped through the paper catalog dreaming of it. I did get to go to many different herbal events and traditional roots and things like that there and connect with a lot of amazing naturopathic students and doctors, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts or feelings on how much herbal medicine is truly integrated into the naturopathic world today, because I some naturopaths I speak to are very knowledgeable in herbal medicine and others are not, and of course, we're going to have our specialties and, yeah, certain areas there are requirements, you know there are base requirements of how much of the curriculum is botanical medicine and there and I don't know exactly what those hours and courses are right now I have a I think it's at least four full term courses, but I'm a little out of touch with what the requirements.

Speaker 2: 23:18

So there are requirements of in terms of the didactic education and then, once you get into clinical training, there is a lot of variability there based on who system, such that it's, I think, seductive for the naturopathic profession to sort of do maybe more pharmaceuticals in the more modern era than we might philosophically even prefer.

Speaker 2: 24:14

But, like I said, there's lots of stresses and strains on the system from different avenues about why that is happening, I think. And so I think it's up to students and practitioners to kind of be strong on what are your values, your beliefs, your philosophies, that you can continue to keep alive the reason why you wanted to study that medicine to begin with. There's also just the job market, I mean, for a naturopathic physician. You know, increasingly there are opportunities to work in very busy primary care clinics where they're medical, they're called medical homes, where they have to do business in a certain way. You know, a certain amount of time to see the patients and certain expectations of of the patients, as well as the um medical model that that clinic is signed on to, uh financially and and uh regulatory and so in certain situations, yeah, more and more naturopathic physicians are in settings where pharmaceuticals kind of tend to win the day, uh, because of efficiency and time and and what patients maybe can afford and on their insurance plans, etc.

Speaker 2: 25:42

But like my clinic I can do anything I want. I mean, I don't, I'm not, you know, uh, beholden and and and I would be an example of you know a graduate that could go out and do the same thing a small clinic, or solo, or a few friends, or a couple, or a friend, a colleague, and start a business and and maintain the original sort of intention of a priority on natural therapies and integrate pharmaceuticals, as that physician is comfortable to do so. And so there's incredible variability, individuality being a naturopathic physician, which I think makes it hard on a consumer like, who are they going to? They might not understand ahead of time what is going to happen at that clinic and and, uh, and I think I would encourage uh, consumers and patients to, you know, do a little exploration of what is the mindset and what are the philosophies and and orientation of that clinic or that naturopathic position. But, yeah, there's pressures on the system, for sure that is evolving our medicine and maybe in ways that we hadn't intended.

Speaker 2: 27:12

Um, actually, you know, it takes time to practice this kind of medicine, and so that's one of the pressures is just financially. For example, naturopathic physicians are not reimbursed at the same rate as our medical doctors or even nurse practitioners, even though our training exceeds theirs, or at least as much as. And so you know I spend an hour, I'm only going to get this amount. And so then the temptation is well, I'm going to change my practice, so I only spend 30 minutes or 20 minutes, because I'm going to get the same reimbursement for that as I would for that and so, and then students now have these, you know, quarter million dollars loans to pay off, and so that's an example of a lot of pressures on the system.

Speaker 2: 28:05

And you can see someone with a sore throat and, you know, hear a few key things about the history. Look quickly, quick exam, maybe take a swab. Maybe you don't prescribe an antibiotic, boom versus. You know you have to practice that sore throat in a more a holistic concept context of their health requires more time, more information. Um, if you're there putting together your own herbal formula for them, that takes time. Um, having a few more symptoms, not just, oh, a sore throat, it's and it looks red and you know it's an infection given antibiotic.

Speaker 1: 28:44

There's more information that's nuanced, that makes you want to use this or versus that, or, yeah, time is it takes more time yeah, and it just it gets complex and that fact that the naturopaths are not paid as well as MDs is is a big piece of it, especially with those big student loans these days.

Speaker 1: 29:06

So, and yes, insurance and the liabilities, and, honestly, I think patient compliance is a big piece there too, because a lot of people don't want to shift their lifestyle and reduce stress and change their eating habits and and whatnot. At least, that's what I come across as an herbalist but you know, but yes, absolutely I agree with you.

Speaker 2: 29:30

And, that said, I think it's important for the general public to realize you could go to a naturopathic physician and get an herbal treatment for the problem at hand and not have to do all those things. I mean, you don't have to change your diet, you don't have to do this, this, that and that. You might have to hear about it, but, but you can still. You know, you could still be, I can. I can still treat you. You know, I can still treat your blood pressure or your sore throat, or your chronic cough, or your abdominal pain or your diarrhea or whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 30:04

Um, and yes, I'm going to share with you some of the influences of some of these lifestyle factors and how food can be medicinal for you, but I can still, uh, treat you without those changes being made, and sometimes it's more of an obstacle. You know, if you've got high cholesterol, for example, continuing to eat burgers and fries and things is going to make it a more challenging process to improve your cardiovascular health with just herbal medicine. There's, um, we're missing out on, you know, the opportunity to do other things that that matter, and that that's that's can be said for many, if not most, health issues. Absolutely, I don't want people to think steer clear of me or another naturopathic physician because they're afraid to think they're thinking. I'm gonna tell them they need to stop drinking their coffee, which I'm never gonna do because that has medicinal benefits.

Speaker 1: 33:52

I was just gonna say there's plenty of great medicine in coffee, thank you, but you know there's there's a moderation and involved.

Speaker 1: 34:02

Yeah, absolutely. Um, fantastic perspectives on there and yes, we can definitely help people with acute symptoms and medicine in so many different ways. Um, I'm really curious. Just a kind of question out of the blue since you have been practicing as a woman's health care practitioner for almost my entire life, have you noticed a shift in the most common complaints from women in your earlier years to women today? And it's okay if you don't have any.

Speaker 2: 34:41

I would say the most common complaints. I don't know that I've seen a shift. You know it's still. You know menstrual cramps, vaginal infections, pms, headaches, fatigue, constipation, you know all that stuff, fatigue, constipation, you know all that stuff. But I would say there is a shift, I think, in more complex conditions and there's more and more patients on my docket that you know have much more complex chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromgia, autoimmune diseases that maybe we can't even quite figure out what it is just yet, or multiple chemical sensitivities or hypersensitivity syndromes or chronic pain syndromes that might not have a name. Most of the time they do, but sometimes they don't. Patients the other day, very unusual presentation of neuropathy or neurological symptoms that didn't fit any easy pattern at all and no easy test to do, and I thought she had something called small fiber neuropathy, which that's complex with no specific cure. Um, ellers, dan losander, just like these more complex things, harder, more paint, more cumbersome, more challenging to live a life of a patient with one of these conditions, uh, that I, that seems.

Speaker 1: 36:22

That is what I've noticed yeah, and it seems to me like your role as the physician is also as the detective, like yeah, yeah, how do we figure this out? And when somebody is coming to you presenting with multiple issues which I would imagine is quite common. Getting to the like, how do you help them like? Do you first help with just easing the mind and the stress of those symptoms? And I would imagine it's variable per person, but um, well, the first step is is what do we understand your illness?

Speaker 2: 37:00

and is there important evaluation assessment to come to a precise diagnosis and I'm a big fan of that and I think that is sometimes a shortcoming of natural medicine or is that you know? Oh, you have irregular periods, let's just give you Chaseberry, and no, we need to know why, because there's some simple causes, there's some complex, there's even some unfortunate causes, even serious causes. So to me, I'm a big fan of knowing, trying to understand and come to a diagnosis, because the treatment matters, you know, the herb matters, the vitamin matters, the medicine, whatever is matters. I can help you a lot quicker and a lot better most of the time if I know what exactly we are really treating and understanding the disease process and the mechanisms that are underpinning that disease process.

Speaker 1: 38:04

I wish I could get that on megaphone and have it much louder for the people in the back I mean. So obviously I'm of a different generation and I'm entirely too in tuned with what's happening on social media and so often I just get messages of I have X, Y, Z problem, what's the herb I can take, and I'm just like I can't give you healthcare advice on social media Like I would. You know. I just helping the masses understand that herbs aren't necessarily your instant fix pill that you're looking for, and that you are a complex being, and because vitex worked for your sister or your mother, it does not necessarily mean it is going to be the herb for you right now.

Speaker 2: 38:51

so and the same things. There's a there's a big swing now back to you know, menopausal hormones can solve all your ills. And that's not true either. Yes, it's a lot safer than people came to believe the last 20 years, but that doesn't mean it's the reason why you're overweight or fatigued or not sleeping just because you're 51 years old. You know there's.

Speaker 2: 39:20

We still have to kind of go through the vetting process of understanding all that person's symptoms and what fatigue is always a good example. You know a lot of, I think one of the kind of knee-jerk reactions, of more of a natural medicine mindset on someone who's chronically fatigued is oh, you have gluten sensitivity, or what would be another thought, oh, you have adrenal fatigue? Well, maybe, but there's a lot more common things and boxes we can check and things that we can easily test. You could just have an iron deficiency Simple, easy-peasy to test, easy-peasy to treat. You could be hypothyroid, easy to test, easy to treat. So fatigue is a good one because there's, you know there's these simple causes and there's then there's sort of elephants in the room, causes like, well, maybe you're not sleeping enough, or, you know, maybe you're not sleeping well enough, uh, and then, yeah, we get into some medium complex things like like adrenal but or more complex, like epstein-barr or, uh, you know, more complex, like, you know, other blood disorders. But it's just a simple, a simple symptom like fatigue. Uh needs to be a methodical process of understanding why and treating the why is, I think, the most efficient, most effective, safest way to go.

Speaker 2: 41:11

But there are certainly things, as you know, mel, just that that I mean. I don't, I want to, I don't want to sidestep the possibility of self-help, you know, and the immense things that one can do, uh, that's, that's a self-help with whether that's a diet change or an herbal thing. But I don't want to underestimate that you know things. But there's things that lend themselves to that. Oh, I have menstrual cramps every month. You've had menstrual cramps every month for years. You know they're not getting worse over time. Okay, try some cramp bark, you know, try some uh magnesium, and there's a lot of things on that list that that lends itself to, to self-help and simple things to try.

Speaker 1: 41:58

Absolutely, and you have great supplements to help those people that need it too, through Vitanica, which is really, really wonderful. I'm curious because I am 45 and apparently entering my perimenopausal years. What words of wisdom do you have for women entering this phase of life? In general, what can we do to ensure that our menopausal and perimenopausal years are as fabulous as can be?

Speaker 2: 42:29

um, well, I think the first step is probably just understanding this is a normal process, you know it's it's something you can't really abort. Um, you, it's a normal process and some people suffer more than others, and so some people never have a hot flash I, for example, never had one, uh, and you know, other people have no symptoms, minimal symptoms, severe symptoms, lots of symptoms Everybody's going to have if they go through menopause. Naturally, everybody's going to have a change in their menstrual cycle Boom, that's the thing that everybody will have. So sometimes that's fairly uneventful change and sometimes it's a chaotic change uneventful change and sometimes it's a chaotic change. So I think, but just understanding that there are changes that are going to happen, and reading about getting informed I have a new book called the menopause companion.

Speaker 2: 43:31

That's one, one way just to get informed about what this is all about. But there's a lot of menopause books on the market. Not all of them would I vote for, but, um, the book I would vote for, dialing in the benefits and risk of hormones, is a book called estrogen matters. Um, that's a great summary, a factual summary of of the research on the benefits and risks of menopausal hormone therapy but, back to your question.

Speaker 2: 44:03

Um, yeah, I think getting under, realizing this is a normal process, getting informed and then understanding when do I need to do something, what are some yellow flags and some red flags and most of the symptoms, you know it's a matter of sort of, if we're having mild symptoms, it's a matter of sort of adapting to and you know, yeah, I'm hotter, but it's not a big deal. Yeah, I'm not sleeping quite as soundly, but it's not a big deal. Versus, I am not falling. It's taken me two hours to fall asleep and I'm waking up three times a night and I'm awake one hour each time. Now that's a problem problem. It's going to affect your cognition and your energy and your mood. So there's degrees of bothersomeness and degrees of severity and degrees of how much it impacts one's life. And that's true. Whether it's hot flashes or sleep or mood, or libido, or vaginal dryness or skin dryness or eye dryness or or hair thinning, it's all a matter of how much is it bothering you and then there. So that's sort of the quality of life bucket. And then there's understanding and getting informed and probably going to a menopause informed practitioner. What are the diseases of aging that I in particular am at risk for now that my estrogen is dropping and is post-menopausal. Now what is my risk? Well, my mother had osteoporosis and, you know, a heart attack or a cardiac events in their 50s. Okay I'm, I got some risk factors there. I have a parent or a sibling that has alzheimer's disease. I have a risk factor there. Breast cancer in the immediate family. I have a risk factor. Those are just some, the kind of the highlighted four, I would say, of bones brain, heart and breast. Uh, to understand what are my risk factors, some of them are subjective and some of them are objective. We can do some tests and things and determine what's your risk of heart disease for the next 10 years. So, knowing that we can identify risks and do risk reduction strategies with herbs, with medicines, with lifestyle changes.

Speaker 2: 46:40

And then there's perhaps diseases that we have had a little bit. Maybe we've had a little bit of osteoarthritis in our knees. Well, now it's, you know, it could easily now get worse. Uh, maybe we've had a little bit of weight gain. Now could easily start to get more escalated, you know, in our 50s because of change in that hormonal status. So maybe we have had a little high blood pressure. Now it's changing for the worse. So there's sort of these three buckets quality of life issues, disease prevention, disease treatment and that's kind of a mini summary of how to frame and how to think about entering perimenopause and menopause. Some of it is specifically related to change in hormones and some of it is, uh, just aging, age related, and some of it is the two wrapped together yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 47:36

I'm curious when you were speaking initially about like some people are going to have a lot of symptoms, some people are not, do you see any correlation between those that tend to suffer more symptoms and lifestyle choices maybe to those that don't?

Speaker 2: 47:56

I would say symptom wise menopause, symptom wise a little bit maybe, but like, if you're um, it may be that, um, I mean stress, for example, can be a make you more, uh, vulnerable to hot flashes and night sweats and insomnia, for example, um, so there, yeah, there are, there are some things like that, but, um, but a lot of it is just it's there's some hereditary aspects or some genetic aspects. There's some we don't know aspects.

Speaker 1: 48:40

There's some some you won the lottery.

Speaker 2: 48:43

I've kind of been. I had a woman today. She said I've always I'm overweight, it's I've gained more been. I had a woman today. She said I've always I'm overweight. It's I've gained more weight in the last she was in her late forties, I think more you know, 20 pounds this last couple of years. She's I always always been able to just change my diet and start. You know they bring more attention to my diet and exercise and lose those 20 pounds. You know, inside of the inside of six to 12 months. That's not happening anymore. She said I can't, that's not working anymore.

Speaker 2: 49:12

And there are physiological explanations for that. In your late 40s the metabolism slows down, insulin resistance increases, uh, loss of muscle mass, there's sort of this perfect storm of things, some of which are related to aging and some are related to dropping of estrogen and or testosterone. Um so um. There there are. There are some things that are just random. There's no reason I there's no special reason why I never had hot flashes and night sweats, but for someone else, if they are a super stressed person, that now they have severe hot flashes, there might be a little correlation there, but it's not black and white gotcha okay, um, thank you for all of that.

Speaker 1: 50:06

It's always fun to listen to, even if I guess thinking about menopausal and perimenopausal symptoms isn't really fun. But so far I I'm like you and have hit the lottery and have not really dealt with it. I just hear that at my age I'm supposed to be there.

Speaker 2: 50:23

The good news about perimenopause and menopause symptoms if you're having them, is there are solutions to all of them really? Uh, I'm not saying herb necessarily. Will herbs work for all symptoms for all women? Absolutely not. Uh, probably the toughest menopause symptom is low libido, is is change in sexual function in the, in that particular realm of low libido, and that again, yeah, you're 50 and you're having low libido. But is that the reason? Maybe your relationship, maybe your stress, maybe it's painful, maybe you know there's, maybe you're taking a medication that's influencing it, maybe you're tired, but let's say we weed those things out and it's down to hormonal changes. That is. That is a symptom that is difficult to get really satisfactory solutions with herbs, I would say, and hormones, maybe we have a better shot, but not an absolute shot right at that. And and sexual function is, you know, is multifactorial, like I said. But even when it's just hormonal, um, it's, there's not. It's not a slam dunk solution for sure, but if it's involving vaginal dryness and discomfort with sexual activity and that's causing your low libido, that's easy to fix.

Speaker 2: 51:57

I love that. There's certain things I love to see. I love that I know I can help them right away. I love it when I have a young woman on my schedule says PMS, okay, great, simple, simple. I mean there are severe cases of PMS, no doubt, but but there are some things that are sort of a relief to see sometimes, you know, like that I, you know, can feel really optimistic that something au naturel can really really help them. And there's a lot on that list. Even migraines are on that list. I mean there's many things on that list. Depression mild to moderate depression, I think is a I feel very optimistic. Helping women herbally with that Mild to moderate anxiety syndrome same thing. Helping women verbally with that mild to moderate anxiety syndrome, same thing. But I think chronic insomnia and low libido due to hormonal changes, those are toughies yeah, I mean that has such a dire impact on a relationship.

Speaker 1: 53:00

It has an impact on your brain function with no sleep and you know, which turns into work and and creates more stress, and you know the ever evolving cycle. Okay, um, I don't want to take up too much more of your time. We kind of used our time up we didn't even get to most of your actual herbal questions, but we rarely do, but I am gonna get at least one more out here If there were an herb, and obviously we know that this is never everybody but an herb that you would love to give to the majority of women out on this planet Mars.

Speaker 1: 53:41

What would it be?

Speaker 2: 53:42

Yeah, I think it would probably be turmeric Nice. Because I and I say that? Because, yeah, I think it would probably be turmeric Nice. And there is a considerable body of research in many different areas, even one study on hot flashes, a study on PMS, but we get into more studies on osteoarthritis and even some roles in oncology and cancer Insulin resistance, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, pre-diabetes, I mean the. The list is long. Um and uh. You can take turmeric with most medications, not absolutely all, but um, yeah, it's. If I were know on the island with one herb, that that would probably I feel like, ok, I can cover a lot of territory with this herb. Yeah, I love that Do you have one.

Speaker 1: 54:59

Oh gosh, when I think of it, initially like nettles comes to me just because it's so nourishing and pretty darn safe across the board, unless we are extremely dry and brittle and at that point in life. But nettles comes up really, really quickly for me there. I do have a question on turmeric though, and I have not read this article. But tanya newbauer I presume you know her she also went to nunm. She's paul bergner's previous wife, oh yeah, another naturopathic physician she just posted I think I saw it last night and I didn't read it, but I saw the headline like is black pepper really necessary with turmeric, and I wish I read the article so I could have a more thorough question, but I guess I'll rephrase the question based upon that article the best ways for people to consume turmeric without having to go for bioavailability in the gut and obviously there's some value.

Speaker 2: 56:16

If you just use turmeric in your kitchen, people and cultures have been using that for generations and centuries. So again, I don't want to dismiss that value, but if I'm trying to treat someone's moderate arthritis of their knee, that's really causing them daily pain. I think we need to take advantage of the modern technology that enhances the absorption, enhances the bioavailability of the curcuminoids in that plant. And black pepper is the sort of like old first generation methodology of enhancing that bioavailability. And we have about seven more generations of methodology to have it be considerably more bioavailable with each new technology that they utilize. And I believe that research and have witnessed that in my clinic and you know people say, well, I had a, I mentioned turmeric and they said, well, I put turmeric in my smoothie. Well, that's really the minimal delivery of the curcuminoids and the effects that it can bring about versus one of these other methodologies that enhances the bioavailability.

Speaker 2: 57:50

The bioavailability sometimes that's I don't know that I need to name them all, but black pepper is sort of the rudimentary and then there's um attaching it to a, a fat soluble substance, then there's attaching it to a curcumin essential oil and then there's these nanoparticle technologies. And then there's this fancy what do they call it? Some kind of water, some kind of fractionation, yada yada, that they do, but the goal for all of them is to enhance the bioavailability, and I do think that matters. So I don't know that what she is. I don't know what she is saying, but if she's saying it doesn't matter and you just can use turmeric powder, I wouldn't be able to agree with that.

Speaker 1: 58:43

It wasn't her article by any means, and I just read the headline of it. So I did not like actually thoroughly read it. It was late at night and I was like, interesting, I'll have to look at that later. So feel free to feel free to send it to me. But yeah, cool, I know that you also over at vitanica have a fantastic turmeric tonic in the tasty tonics line and you've got those ccdg blend.

Speaker 2: 59:10

Yes, can you talk a little bit about the ccdg blend, because I think that is probably the most unique to anybody listening right now that that is a product, uh that is used in uh hpv protocols of the cervix and abnormal pap smears and abnormal cell changes of the cervix. But it shouldn't be presumed that, oh, I have an abnormal pap smear, I can just take that product, of course, because there's uh you know one. Depending on the abnormality of the pap smear, one might need a biopsy. And again, what, what it really is going on, is important.

Speaker 2: 59:53

But CCDG with the curcumin, the DIM, the green tea and the turkey tail each one of those things on their own has a little research relevant to HPV or what's called cervical dysplasia, and so that's why they're together and that formula is used best in context of I might also need to give a high dose of folate as part of the protocol. I might also need to give additional turkey tail to the protocol. I might also need to use suppositories that have to be made by a special pharmacist. Or I might need to say, yeah, you do need a LEAP procedure and we'll spend the next year after the LEAP doing CCDG blend to optimize the chance that you don't, that the HPV gets cleared, that human papillomavirus, and it doesn't recur. So it's used in context.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

But for people who've been told oh, your pap smear isn't abnormal, but it's not abnormal enough that you need to do anything else now. Just come back in a year and be sure we check it. If you've been told that by your gynecologist, that's a good situation for CCDG blend, because they didn't recommend that you needed a biopsy and they're going to do nothing for the next year because do during that year to increase the chances of clearing the virus Nice.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

I love. Thank you for that breakdown. I would not have known that that's what you used it for specifically. I was just like oh, a dim and green tea and turmeric and turkey tail I love them all Sounds great. Tea and turmeric and turkey tail I love them all, Sounds great. So yeah, then I would definitely also say for people wanting to get a really high quality turmeric, your turmeric tonic is.

Speaker 2: 1:01:56

Well, I mean, yes, it's high quality, but I want I do have to say I mean the source of the plant is high quality. But I'm just looking at the book, the page here, yeah, you have a lot of formulas to remember.

Speaker 2: 1:02:08

That's an example of sort of first generation methodology of enhancing bioavailability, because it is with the black pepper fruit extract. So we're not just sticking turmeric root in an extraction process. We are trying to improve the bioavailability, but it is not one of these super fancier, uh newer technologies. But it is, uh, it's sort of, but it does enhance the bioavailability by putting it with the black pepper. But some people need a higher delivery of the curcuminoids. Yeah, but thanks for promoting it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

Yeah, I mean I, I love your product line. I think it's absolutely brilliant and I wish more people knew about it. You know, I know, I think for quite a long time you only work for practitioners, Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 1:03:02

No, we've always kind of done both. We've always had the retail and general public and the practitioner line.

Speaker 1: 1:03:10

Cool, cool. Well, I will definitely make sure that people are getting a link to Vitanica and to everything we talked about today. You're the first person I've had on the show that has said turmeric would be like the thing for people, so I love that. Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 1:03:29

Well, I mean kudos to you for educating the public, educating women, educating mothers and trying to bring plant medicine into the home as a self-help tool. That I appreciate that about you school.

Speaker 1: 1:03:48

Um, that I appreciate that about you and thank you for paving the path for me. Thank you, thank you so much, and is there anything else you'd like to say to people that are listening ways they can get in touch with you? I know we did talk about those quarterly seminars. You're doing that's for practitioners.

Speaker 2: 1:04:02

Okay, um and other. I mean I do have a blog. Okay, um and other. I mean I do have a blog. Dr tory hudson, uh, is a blog, so I post things on there twice a month, most often other, hopefully easy read type things but chock full of science, although sometimes I sort of wax a little bit philosophical yeah, we've got to bring human in.

Speaker 2: 1:04:28

So that's an easy, an easy thing to access about information that I can share. The menopause companion, new book, the encyclopedia of women's health that you mentioned for for the general public those are the best things.

Speaker 1: 1:04:45

Right, yeah, I will definitely have all of those linked in the show notes. No doubt about it. And again, thank you so much. It's been an honor. All right, take care, have a great day, tori Bye.

Speaker 1: 1:05:03

Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of the Herbalist Path. Being on this journey with you is absolutely incredible. If you dig this episode, please leave me a review on your favorite podcast player and share it with your friends so that together we can make herbalism hashtag spread like wildflowers. On another note, I must mention that, while I know you're getting some good info here, it's important to remember that this podcast is purely for entertainment and educational purposes and is not intended to be a substitute for medical treatment. While the information in this podcast is absolutely relevant, herbs work differently for each person and each condition. That's why I recommend you work with a qualified practitioner, whether that be another herbalist, a naturopath or your doctor. So thank you again. I am truly honored that you're tuning into these episodes and on the path with me to make sure that there's an herbalist in every home. Again, don't forget to share this episode with your friends so that we can make herbalism Hashtag spread like wildflowers.